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1.16.2008

I’ve recently had a couple of experiences that have made me feel like a bad landlord. I always try to be fair and accommodating of our tenants, I feel that is one of the benefits of renting directly from a property-owner, rather than from one of those big super-complexes. It has always worked well in the past, but there’s a fine line between being a jerk and being too lenient.

Our first really bad landlord experience came with the moving out of the tenants in apartment two. If you can remember, they moved out of state after being long-time renters in the building. They were very good renters, always paying on time and always upfront and communicative. Nice people who were pleasant to talk to and we were sad to see them go.

Unfortunately, their move-out didn’t go so smooth. They had a TON of stuff (one of the downfalls of having large storage units for tenants is that they can fill them up), two small kids, a dog, and a cat. Moving was hectic and they were ill prepared. There was also a HUGE blizzard the weekend they were moving, so they were hurrying to get on the road. They ended up leaving the apartment pretty dirty, and overfilling our dumpster, as well as the dumpster to the unit next door. The trash removal company refused to dump either of them, so Mr. Savvy and my brother had to go over and clean up all the trash, and move a lot of it to the shed we have on the property. Luckily, they were able to find room for the entire overflow (at this point it also included one week of trash from both apartment buildings – 12 units total), and the trash removal company dumped the dumpsters. Mr. Savvy has been going back and moving trash from the storage shed to the dumpsters every week in order to get it removed. Luckily it has been damn cold here, so there’s no stink.

We spent a lot of time cleaning and removing trash. We also had some items we had to pay to have removed. I ended up keeping their entire security deposit ($275 – this was collected by previous owners, we charge one month’s rent now). We figured out how much time we spent cleaning and prepping, and paid ourselves $20/hour, and they owed us money at the end (we didn’t ask them for payment of the difference). We also had some cleaning supplies we had to purchase.

The second experience is related to our other tenant who moved out in December. She broke her lease early, but we were able to fill the vacancy. I am charging her mileage, advertising, and an hourly rate for showings. It ends up being about $170. I didn’t want to charge her, but I consulted our lawyer, as well as a couple other landlords, and they all told me that it was very reasonable. I guess most apartments charge one-month's rent for finding replacement tenants. She’s also getting a check back for about $200 of her December rent, since the new tenants moved in in the middle of the month. I guess I shouldn't feel too bad.

I don’t like feeling like the landlord that nickels and dimes their tenants on security deposits, but I also realize that we are in this as an investment. I am trying my best to be fair.

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Blogger Duane said ... (3:37 PM) : 

You *are* being fair. I write in all sorts of costs like this into the lease and make sure tenants know about them up front. Keep in mind that most people are renting because they don't have the life skills or motivation to plan such that they own their own home. Last minute decisions are the norm among most renters and you need to build in an expense when their poor planning cuts into your time/money.

 

Blogger Adrian said ... (10:22 AM) : 

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Blogger Julia said ... (10:49 AM) : 

Perhaps I might have arrived at the same level of judgment and cynicism as Duane if I were a landlord; being a landlord is pretty high on my list of things I'd never want to do. I'm a professional who has always cultivated good relations with my landlords; my decision to rent and not buy at this time in my life has nothing to do with my life skills other than knowing what is appropriate for my own long-term financial and life goals. I kind of resent the implication that renters are losers and owners have it together. I've heard just as many bad landlord stories as bad tennant stories. Duane probably knows what he's talking about relative to his own situation, but it sounds like he has a certain amount of contempt for a whole segment of the popluation.

 

Blogger Vladimir said ... (4:39 PM) : 

As with every investment, sometimes you're up and sometimes you're down. The price you paid for these people being diligent with their rent and nice to you is this huge cleanup. If I were you, I wouldn't be upset about it. But when my landlord tried to nickel and dime me, I threatened to take it to court and she dropped her "charges". In your case here the former tenants were leaving the area so you lucked out.

 

Blogger Duane said ... (7:28 PM) : 

Julia,

I read over what I wrote again and I can see how it may appear cynical. That wasn't my intent at all, nor do I have contempt for those who rent. Generalizations always have exceptions but the renting populace is largely composed of people who would have a hard time reliably holding a mortgage. The remainder are people in some form of transition where renting makes sense.

For a landlord the latter group is desirable and the former makes you want to tear your hair out.

For what it is worth, I have some stories of bad landlords back when I was renting so I can see it going both ways.

 

Blogger savvy said ... (6:19 AM) : 

vladimir - I don't consider spending two weekends cleaning up someone else's trash is "paying the price" for a tenant that paid their rent on time. Paying rent on time is their obligation, as is cleaning their own apartment.

 

Blogger Vladimir said ... (7:08 AM) : 

My personal bias arises from various landlords during my college years that had the mentality that the apartment they were renting me and my friends was their investment. With that mentality, what typically followed was the one sided understanding that you’re not supposed to lose money in an investment and/or that spending (their) money to maintain the investment was a losing proposition.

When light bulbs blew out, we were supposed to buy and install replacements. When the sink or commode backed up, “there’s a plunger in the basement”. When we complained about the windows being too drafty and that we were losing excess heat during the winter, heat that we paid for, the response was, “it’s an old house you know”. Given this we refused to pay rent until issues such as backed up sinks and blown out light bulbs were resolved. If we had to go to a supermarket to use the restroom, you better believe they did not see rent for that month.

 

Blogger Patrick in Philly said ... (10:15 AM) : 

First, let me say that I am glad you are in a state where you are allowed to charge for your time. Here charging for the landlord's time is questionable and can get thrown out if it goes to court in front of a tenant friendly judge. If I paid to have it removed by someone else then the charge can stick.

You have to realize that it is a business you run and it is one where you forge a long-term relationship while you provide your services. What makes it harder is that you are forging this relationship with people you initially like, otherwise you wouldn't have rented to them. It's hard to separate the business from the personal relationship but it must be done.

Second, just to comment on vladimir's comments, I've always taken the idea that consumables are the responsibility of the tenant. To me, consumables are items used for a time with the intention of them being thrown away when their usefulness is done. Light bulbs fall into this category. In my mind they are the same as toilet paper, dish soap and shampoo. The only exception would be a light bulb in a common are of a multi-unit apartment complex.

For the clogged toilet, if I sent a plumber over and all he had to do was use a plunger on the toilet then the tenant would be charged. It is expected that a tenant maintain a property as well as a landlord. It should be a partnership. When renting a unit you didn't also rent a personal assistant to plunge your toilets. You rented a place to live and the landlord's responsibility is to maintain the building. If the toilet couldn't be cleared with a plunger then the landlord should be called to get a plumber out.

Did the landlord install drafty windows after you moved in or were they the same windows that were there when you initially accepted the place?

 

Blogger Amaranta said ... (11:47 AM) : 

i agree with patrick. i would never expect a landlord to replace light bulbs inside my apartment, nor clean the shower, etc. however, i am guilty of being slightly ignorant when it comes to home/apartment maintenance, and once when the shower wouldnt drain and I didnt know why, it ended up just being a huge hair clog :) now that i am familiar with some 'troubleshooting' i try that BEFORE calling the landlord and demanding some kind of professional help.

however, requesting that the windows be sealed/some other kind of fix for excess draft is not outrageous, especially if they are long term renters. when the landlord goes to sell the property, that renovation will add to the value of the apartment. how could you know the windows were drafty if you signed the lease in the summer?

 

Blogger Vladimir said ... (2:58 PM) : 

We have a plugged toilet and know that there’s a plunger in the basement. Given the choice between trying the plunger and driving to the local supermarket to take care of business, we obviously tried the plunger. The landlord who we’re renting from lived in Florida. He had moved there after retirement and this was one of his investment properties. He asked us to call his maintenance man who never answers his messages. The only time we dealt with the guy was getting keys to the place. Luckily NY State is somewhat renter friendly and legal or not we refused to pay rent for that month.

My best renter/landlord experience was after college right after I got married. We had an apartment on the second floor with the landlord living downstairs with his family. His two daughters lived upstairs in the attic and we had another tenant as a neighbor on the second floor. Any problems or concerns were resolved with a short walk down the stairs and two knocks on a door. After two years we were sad to leave as their family became our family. We shared the pool, BBQ’s together, I helped them with their computer problems, and the dad helped with woodworking crafts.

On the flip side, now that I want to become a landlord, I am hesitant here in NY due to the fact that eviction proceeding can be dragged out by the tenants for months on end. In the case above where we shared the building with the landlord, he had far more leeway in being discriminatory with whom he rented to and could have us out in 30 days if we became a problem. While I want that flexibility, I don’t want to spend months searching for the perfect tenants to share my home with.

 

Blogger Young said ... (10:18 PM) : 

It sounds like you were very reasonable with the tenant who broke her lease. She backed out of an agreement, it's reasonable that she should pay. Good luck with your next tenants!

 

Blogger Current Mortgage Rates said ... (11:10 AM) : 

my brother had a problem with a tenant who didnt want to pay for like 2-3months. He lived in another state so it was hard for him to see what was going on. He finally went to visit the tenant, and the tenant had brand new plasma tvs, brand new car, brand furniture, etc....and was in the middle of packing up ....ready to move into a new home.

 

Blogger Jerry said ... (11:16 AM) : 

Personal experience leads me to believe that there are renters who are willing and able to manage things for themselves - largely - and others who are unable to... some elderly tenants for example. However, IMHO there is a big difference between tenants who are unable, and those who are unwilling (but able). If landlords had some insurance that people wouldn't abuse their situation (and vice versa) the whole thing would run smoother. Alas, there are plenty of shady people out there on both sides of the rental equation.
Jerry
www.leads4insurance.com

 

Blogger author said ... (9:17 PM) : 

Do they have insurance that landlords can buy in case a tenant does not pay rent or skips out?

 

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